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BFAPG Name Change to BWFAPG

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David Lewis-Baker is a group administrator David Lewis-Baker  Pro User  says:

After much consideration I have decided to change the name of the group to more accurately reflect the geographical spread and diversity of both its membership and subjects.

At various times the title 'Wessex' has included Berkshire, Oxfordshire, Gloucestershire, Wiltshire, Hampshire & Isle of White, Dorset, Somerset, Devon and Cornwall. Although briefly, under the Danish Viking king Cnut (post c1016), the Eearldom of Wessex comprised all of England south of the Thames,

Thomas Hardy used a fictionalised south-west as a setting for many of his novels, reviving the term Wessex for southwest England. He gave the counties the following fictionalised names: Berkshire = North Wessex; Devon = Lower Wessex; Dorset = South Wessex; Hampshire = Upper Wessex; Somerset = Outer Wessex; Wiltshire = Mid-Wessex. Neighbouring Cornwall was described as Off-Wessex or Lyonesse.

I intend to adopt as the core region for this group a modern definition of Wessex comprising of Gloucestershire & the Cotswolds, Hampshire, Wiltshire, Dorset, Somerset and Devon.

Please let me know if you have any thoughts on this.

What follows is an edited extract from the Wilipedia entry on Wessex, if nothing else to show just how complicated the history and georgaphy of Wessex is:

According to the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (ASC), Wessex was founded by Cerdic and Cynric, chieftains of a clan known as "Gewisse". They are said to have landed on the Hampshire coast and conquered the surrounding area, including the Isle of Wight. However, the specific events given by the ASC are in some doubt. Archæological evidence points to a considerable early Anglo-Saxon presence in the upper Thames valley and Cotswolds area as well as in Hampshire, and the centre of gravity of Wessex in the late sixth and early seventh century seems to have lain further to the north than in later periods.

During the mid 600s AD King Penda of the Northern kingdon of Mercia attacked Wessex and this marked the beginning of sustained pressure from the expanding kingdom of Mercia. In time this would deprive Wessex of its territories north of the Thames and the Avon, encouraging the kingdom's reorientation southwards.

The king of Wessex from 642 Cenwealh faced further attacks from Penda's successor Wulfhere, but was able to expand West Saxon territory in Somerset at the expense of the Britons. He established a second bishopric at Winchester, while the one at Dorchester was soon abandoned as Mercian power pushed southwards. Winchester would eventually develop into the effective capital of Wessex.

During the eighth century Wessex was overshadowed by Mercia, whose power was then at its height, and the West Saxon kings may at times have acknowledged Mercian overlordship.

As a result of the Mercian conquest of the northern portion of its early territories in Gloucestershire and Oxfordshire, the Thames and the Avon now probably formed the northern boundary of Wessex, while its heartland lay in Hampshire, Wiltshire, Berkshire, Dorset and Somerset. The system of shires which was later to form the basis of local administration throughout England (and eventually, Ireland, Wales and Scotland as well) originated in Wessex, and had been established by the mid-eighth century.

The fortunes of Wessex were transformed by King Egbert, who came to the throne in 802 and who claimed descent from Ine's brother Ingeld. In 825 he overturned the political order of England by decisively defeating King Beornwulf of Mercia at Ellendun and seizing control of Sussex, Kent and Essex from the Mercians, while with his help East Anglia broke away from Mercian control.

In 829 he conquered Mercia, driving its King Wiglaf into exile, and secured acknowledgment of his overlordship from the king of Northumbria. He thereby became the Bretwalda, or high king of Britain. This position of dominance was shortlived, as Wiglaf returned and restored Mercian independence in 830, but the expansion of Wessex across south-eastern England proved permanent.

Alfred the Great (c. 849 – 26 October 899) was king of the southern Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Wessex from 871 to 899. Alfred is noted for his defence of the kingdom against the Danish Vikings, becoming the only English king to be awarded the epithet "the Great". Alfred was born sometime between 847 and 849 at Wantage in the present-day ceremonial county of Oxfordshire (then in the historic county of Berkshire).

In 865 another enormous Danish host arrived in England. Over the following years this army overwhelmed the kingdoms of Northumbria and East Anglia. Wessex was invaded in 871, and although Aethelred and Alfred won some victories and succeeded in preventing the conquest of their kingdom, a number of defeats, heavy losses of men and the arrival of a fresh Danish army in England compelled Alfred to pay the Danes to leave Wessex.

The Danes spent the next few years subduing Mercia and some of them settled in Northumbria, but the rest returned to Wessex in 876. Alfred responded effectively and was able with little fighting to bring about their withdrawal in 877. A portion of the Danish army settled in Mercia, but at the beginning of 878 the remaining Danes mounted a winter invasion of Wessex, taking Alfred by surprise and overrunning much of the kingdom.

Alfred was reduced to taking refuge with a small band of followers in the marshes of Somerset, but after a few months he was able to gather an army and defeated the Danes at the Battle of Edington, bringing about their final withdrawal from Wessex to settle in East Anglia.

Over the following years Alfred carried out a dramatic reorganisation of the government and defences of Wessex, building warships, organising the army into two shifts which served alternately and establishing a system of fortified burhs across the kingdom. This system is recorded in a tenth century document known as the Burghal Hidage, which details the location and garrisoning requirements of thirty-three forts, whose positioning ensured that no one in Wessex was more than a long day's ride from a place of safety.[1]. In the 890s these reforms helped him to repulse the invasion of another huge Danish army – which was aided by the Danes settled in England – with minimal losses.

Alfred also reformed the administration of justice, issued a new law code and championed a revival of scholarship and education. He gathered scholars from around England and elsewhere in Europe to his court, and with their help translated a range of Latin texts into English, doing much of the work in person, and orchestrated the composition of the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. As a result of these literary efforts and the political dominance of Wessex, the West Saxon dialect of this period became the standard written form of Old English for the rest of the Anglo-Saxon period and beyond.

After the conquest of England by the Danish king Cnut in 1016, he established earldoms based on the former kingdoms of Northumbria, Mercia and East Anglia, but initially administered Wessex personally. Within a few years, however, he had created an earldom of Wessex, encompassing all of England south of the Thames, for his English henchman Godwin.

All from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wessex and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_the_Great

Aside from its location in Somerset at the heart of all forms of the Wessex kingdom, Bath is also the place where 'England' was first formally created out of the kingdoms of Mercia and Wessex.

After the death of King Eadred in 955, the realm was divided between his two sons, with the elder Eadwig ruling in Wessex while Mercia passed to his younger brother Edgar.

However, in 959 Eadwig died and the whole realm came under Edgar's control and Edgar was crowned by the Archbishop of Cantebury as the first King of all England (i.e. Wessex and Mercia) at Bath's St. Paul's Monestary in 973 (later replaced by a vast Norman Cathedral, and later still by the present Abbey (c1499-1520).

Thus England was first formally united at Bath, in the heart of (then) Saxon Wessex.
Originally posted at 4:15AM, 16 December 2007 PST ( permalink )
David Lewis-Baker edited this topic 12 months ago.

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F-2  Pro User  says:

Okay then, I had better go and get some more images of Wilton, just a few miles away, because now we are a Wessex group Wilton must be included.

Why?

Because once upon a time Wilton was the Capital of Wessex.
Posted 12 months ago. ( permalink )

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Monkey Tennis is a group moderator Monkey Tennis  Pro User  says:

My gut-feel-geography for Wessex is Avon, Wiltshire, Somerset and Dorset...

I do think the name-change is a good one.
Posted 12 months ago. ( permalink )

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David Lewis-Baker is a group administrator David Lewis-Baker  Pro User  says:

Thanks F-2, yes it was the administrative centre until Winchester took over I believe.

Thanks Tom - the exact definition of Wessex was a tough call, but in the end I included all the western countries of the Old Wessex and also Hampshire since Winchester was long the kingly centre of power and authority for Wessex.

Avon is a modern name, of course, with no link to the ancient Wessex (the name of the lower river Avon excepted) but Bristol at its heart (and clearly a Wessex town) is in both Gloucestershire and to a small extent Somerset. So that alone would bring in Gloucestershire, but there are many other hisotircal reasons for including it.

Any 'Wessex' grouping is a compromise, of course, but in the end I also felt this group of modern counties also best expressed the location and interests/inspiration of the present membership of the BWFAPG.

david:>)
Originally posted 12 months ago. ( permalink )
David Lewis-Baker edited this topic 12 months ago.

Dave~B [deleted] says:

Leaving the Wessex thing to one side for a moment, I’d start by saying that I have, in my short time here, been slightly confused by the description of the group. Is it for *fine art work centred on Bath* by those either living and working in Bath or non-residents simply inspired by the city? -or- Is it for *any fine art works on any subject* by those either living and working in Bath or non-residents simply inspired by the city?

At the moment it is unclear. I would assume it is the former however it could be interpreted as the latter e.g. an artist or photographer living in the city could show their fine art images of New Zealand quite legitimately. Simply adding a few words at the end of the first paragraph along the lines of ‘to share, comment and discuss work centred upon this area’ or some such would clarify this.

The Wessex thing ……… Hmmmmmmm.

My first reaction was that extending the boundaries is essentially a good thing. I’m fairly new to the group however putting my objective head on for a moment, limiting it to Bath seems to be exclusive rather than inclusive. The ‘boundaries’ of an extended area could be developed along any lines one wished and be described by any suitable name. Wessex is a historical reference which most people in the SW UK will relate to (even if a little inaccurately). Individuals elsewhere (UK and beyond) who are interested in the area will have probably heard of the name Wessex in the same way that they will have heard of the name Avalon …. so I think in theory the reasoning and the name are sound.

However ……

The first potentially negative effect is that extending the area means, under the description of the group as it is, someone resident in say, South Africa, could join up and post images / art work of the area around Shaftesbury because they are ‘inspired’ by that area (Cranborne Chase for example) as depicting typical English countryside ……. is that what we want?

The second potential negative effect is that we may see a flood of images of places all over ‘Wessex’ when BWFAPG is added to the long list of groups to which some people send each and every image they create e.g. the plethora of location, area, county, town, Nation Trust and English Heritage groups. Currently someone posting to the Dorset group would not send their image to BFAPG. In those terms Bath being exclusive is perhaps not a bad thing?

At the moment BFAPG is a relatively small but relatively active group of largely like-minded individuals. I am just getting to know one or two members and have good feelings about the group. If it were widened to such a large area perhaps we would loose the intimacy.

Apologies that this is not a yes or no vote but rather some points to consider from a relative newbie :) .

Dave B.
Originally posted 12 months ago. ( permalink )
Dave~B edited this topic 12 months ago.

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Fortaguada  Pro User  says:

Why stop at Wessex? :)
Posted 12 months ago. ( permalink )

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David Lewis-Baker is a group administrator David Lewis-Baker  Pro User  says:

Thanks dave! Yes most f these thoughts had also crossed my mind and I am glad that you raised them.

When I concieved the original idea for the BFAPG I was aware that the city already possessed a couple of excellent Bath photographic images sites, which I did not wish to simply reproduce.

So I set the group up to reflect BOTH the work (fine art and fine photography) going on in Bath and its surrounding area (defined as the immediately surrounding counties) which depicted local places and events, AND also to pick up works by artists and photographers which was being created in Bath and its surrounding counties, so as to also reflect the fine art/photographic creativity (whatever the subject of this - i.e. purely abstract images, self-portraits etc).

In addition, from the outset I wanted non-UK residents living and working in the Bath area to be able to contribute and also to allow non-UK residents who were inspired by the cityand its surrounding area to create fine art photographs and/or artworks. To do otherwise held out the potential to refuse to allow the work of a wonderful photographer or artist who was inspired by the area, but did not live here.

In addition, the key to preventing this group from being flooded with works from those motivated by the thought that 'I am from the US and have a few snaps of Bath or Stone Henge to contribute' was to make it an invite only group - so that is what I did, and so far it has worked I feel.

I am hoping that this will also work with any further widening of the membership. This should prevent any 'flood of images' that would otherwise occur and which you are rightly concerned about Dave, and should also continue to police the South African snapper who like to send endless shots of stone Henge or Winchester. And there is always the removal of images powers available to administrators and moderators, of course.

As a result of the initially wide remit the group has already picked up members (and images/works) of all of the counties it now includes except Hampshire, and also works which do not depict 'local' places/events etc, but were created locally.

In this context, I was also conscious that Bath based artists and photographers regularly go out and undertake work based on the immediately surrounding counties, and individuals from those counties travel to Bath and create works based upon the city.

But I take very seriously what has been said by you Dave and will continue to think about it and consult with others.

One thing is certain, I am going to have to tke a hard look at the blurb on the front page of the group to make sure it is clear what the group is looking for, and perhaps tighten up the rules too.

Hi Dan, nice one:)

david:>)
Originally posted 12 months ago. ( permalink )
David Lewis-Baker edited this topic 12 months ago.

Dave~B [deleted] says:

TVM for that David, puts everything into context and I am with you on all of it. Like you say the crux is in description of what the group is all about rather than defining strict geographical boundaries. I wasn’t really ‘concerned’ as such, simply musing over the pros and cons.

Now, Fine Art / Fine (Art) Photography? ……… but that’s another thread ;-)

Dave B.
Posted 12 months ago. ( permalink )

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