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Use the Sensia and Provia stuff.
Posted 17 months ago.
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you could push it probably. i don't know that you'd want to push it too much though. i haven't ever wanted a faster slide film so i dont know much about the best solutions. have you searched like adorama or some other site for higher speed e6 films? i know there are kodak ultra color something or others at iso 200, i bet you could get away with processing a 200 speed film normally even when a 400 speed was "more correct" you'd at least get more saturation out of the colors, as long as the stuff you are shooting isn't too contrasty
Posted 17 months ago.
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I use 400 ISO Ektachrome or Provia, or have used 400 ISO Ektachrome or Provia, but even that's pretty rare these days. I'd go with pushing the 400, if you need speed.
One nice thing about Provia 400 is that you can underrate by a stop if you want the super staturatio and blasted out highlights, and still process it at 400 without any pushing. I x-pro'd a roll of Provia 400 shot at 200 recently and the results were a little more subtle than 200 EVS of whatever it's called now (I don't use that much ektchrome anymore, mostly because of the price) pushed a stop.
Posted 17 months ago.
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i forgot i was in the cross processing group. i wouldnt push process e6 film if you cross process it. if anything you'd want to pull it a tad. so probably the best option is to find the fast films
Posted 17 months ago.
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or i should ask what the desired results are before i hand out rules...
Posted 17 months ago.
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I'm not really sure what I want my results to be, I've been perfectly happy with all the xpro i've had so far. 400 ISO is enough for me, but I wondered if there were other options than Sensia and Provia. I've already got some Sensia 400 which I'll try this week, but I like experimenting and seeing whats going on.
I'm going down to London for a few days, and I'm gonna photograph as much as possible. As the majority is indoors I'm interested in 400 ISO, and I'll be shooting with an LC-A+.
So most of you recommend pulling? Is 1 stop too much? I can only change the exposure by altering the cameras film speed so it can only be done in 1 stop intervals.
Posted 17 months ago.
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are you getting a tungsten balanced film? the reason i suggest pulling is that when you cross from e6 to c41 you usually add contrast and pulling will allow you some room for color shifts while maintaining a normal contrast. if you shoot in a lower contrast situation then a bump in contrast may be a desired effect. pulling one stop or maybe 2 at most is probably safe. mostly base the decision on whether or not you want more or less contrast. i'd say try tungsten balanced film if you plan on mostly indoors, but you could also get cool results shooting a daylight film, maybe use a blue filter of some kind on part of the roll if you shoot with the daylight film.
Posted 17 months ago.
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I've used all the 400 speed chromes, and Provia is by far the most fun to xpro (in my opinion, obnov). Big bold cartoony colours in sunlight, interesting washed out vintage look when cloudy, and pretty decent indoors and even with flash.
Kodak Elitechrome 400 is OK, but unless the sun is shining it looks a bit too normal.
I like Sensia 400 best under artificial light or really overcast conditions. It goes too green in sunlight.
Posted 17 months ago.
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EATENalive So let me get this straight, underexpose by 1 stop will give you normal contrast, but allow you some leeway for colour shifts. But if I want increased contrast I need to overexpose 1 or 2 stops?
So I have 400 speed Sensia for example, I shoot at 800, then develop as 400 and that'll be my 1 stop pull? Sorry if that seems a daft question, but I've never tried pushing/pulling film, and I dont really know whether pulling is underexposing or overexposing.
I want to understand it though, as it'll be useful info to add to my Holga site. Though its not much use to Holga users I suppose :)
Andy Lock I'll see if I can pick up some Provia in London.
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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squarefrog edited this topic 17 months ago.
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you'd shoot at 200 and underdevlop to compensate for overexposing your negs for lower contrast. this is the pull
by default you add contrast when you x-pro e6 in c41
to add more contrast you'd shoot at 800 and overdevelop to compensate for underexposure. this is a push
if you play with cross processing c41 negs in e6 you have to push several stops to get enough contrast (although i think you push without underexposing in this case)
Posted 17 months ago.
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So in your first example, I shoot my 400 at 200, then when I drop the roll off, ask the lab to develop as if its 200? If I want more contrast, shoot at 800, dev at 800. So shooting and developing at rated speed is the medium ground for all of this?
Originally posted 17 months ago.
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squarefrog edited this topic 17 months ago.
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there are math formulas, so you need to tell your lab to pull it some number of stops (1 in that case) they should know what it means. i think its like a 20% difference in development time or something like that. if the lab doesnt know about pulling and pushing you should just go to another lab. but in the grand scheme it has nothing to do with an actual ISO necessarily but rather it has to do with processing times and what the normal processing time is for your film. so if your film is a 400 iso film and you pull it you take normal development time for your 400 iso film and subtract a percentage of time depending on the number of stops you are pulling. and when you push you take the normal processing time and add a certain percentage of time based on the number of stops you need to push. it would be nice if it was as simple as choosing a different ISO to process for. for some films they have charts with processing times for pushing and pulling so in that case you might read the chart based on which ISO you shot the film at. like if you have an ilford chart for hp5 which is an iso 400 film but say you set your camera to meter for iso 1600 the ilford chart may have development times for a given developer for your 1600 exposures. otherwise you rely on math or searching the internet for other peoples suggestions. a good lab will know how to handle it so long as you indicate it needs a push or pull
Posted 17 months ago.
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Brilliant I think I understand now. I've been meaning to try it when I dev black and white, but I never got round to it. Now I've bought some Diafine I probably never will get round to it!
I always assumed you either over/under exposed, OR got the lab to pull/push. Didn't realise you did both, although it does make sense now. So the final questions from me are just to reassure myself, and as a practical example for my site:
Its sunny outside, high contrast. I shoot 400 speed at 200 speed, then I drop my film off and ask them to xpro, pull 1 stop.
Its cloudy, low flat contrast. I shoot 400 speed rated at 800, I drop my film off and ask them to xpro, and push 1 stop to compensate.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain, EATENalive. I'll add a link to your photo pool in my xpro section as a thank you.
Posted 17 months ago.
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no problem ^_^ and it looks like you've got it. its one of the things ansel adams made frequent use of with his zone system, he knew approximately how much latitude his film had and would meter everything out and based on the exposure of a scene he would know if he needed to pull and decrease contrast, or push to increase it. armed with that and the ability to make an exposure to place tones in certain areas you can produce ideal negatives for making superb prints/files.
i'll add that i think even on cloudy days however its still fairly high contrast and if you are going to shoot on cloudy days and also cross process i dont think you'll need to push since the cross process itself alters the contrast somewhat. if you are going to shoot inside though you may want to push as inside is usually much lower contrast than outside. unless you are shooting like bands which use spotlights etc.
Posted 17 months ago.
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i just checked out the section on your site, nicely stated. i noticed the comment about it being easier said than done with a holga, and i think to some extent thats true since you don't adjust your exposures but it makes to push or pull depending on the ISO of the film you put in. you could buy a film rated 1600 but if you expose outside thats gonna blow everything out so you'd have to pull it a few stops. or maybe you got a 100 speed film and decide you want to shoot indoors, then a push would be necessary, you can use a variety of films to actually have more control over your exposures. normally i'd say a 400 speed film is great for all applications since you can go both ways with relative ease but you'd want the push or pull to benefit the whole roll since you don't selectively process individual frames. this might be more useful if you happen to only have one roll of film and its not the ideal ISO for the situation. i can imagine being out at some killer spot and everything around looks like it would make awesome photos but its noon and all you have is that 1600 speed film left because you just burned through the 400 speed rolls on the way to the location, or you left them home by mistake or something. or maybe you've used all your film and someone with you has a roll you can bum off them. it's good to know what you can do, and to have a sense of what films work the best with your holga under certain conditions since every one of them is so different.
another side note, i mentioned that the x-pro adds contrast but this is more specifically if you put e6 film in c41 chemistry. if you try to go the other way around you lose a lot of contrast which is why you push c42 films 2 or 3 stops. i think thats something a lot of people miss and perhaps why there is a general tendency to dislike the results.
Posted 17 months ago.
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Good advice, I'll update the section when i get back from london after the weekend!
Posted 17 months ago.
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sweet! you might seperate the push and pull info from the x-processing info since it applies on its own, but is worth considering along with x-processing based on the characteristics of x-processing.
Posted 17 months ago.
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So when you push and pull normally, you just get the contrast change I assume. I'll try and think where to put it (troubleshooting maybe). Damn, my To Do list just keeps getting bigger and bigger.. still working on the site keeps me out of trouble.
Posted 17 months ago.
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yeah pushing and pulling is mostly done to effect contrast, or because the appropriate film isnt available. its helpful to know when you cross process since the cross processing also effects everything and so proper combinations will allow you to plan and get better results
Posted 17 months ago.
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