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About the pictures.
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Thanks for the invitation.
Let's see what I got to say...
Let's start with saying that I totally believe in the equality of men and woman.
I realize that woman have come a long way and that in some countries woman still have to go a long way.
I think Belgium is doing fine. Not perfect. Just fine. We are a liberal country. (the pope probably gets a headache every time he hears the word Belgium.) As far as I'm concerned - A LADY FOR POPE!.
But I do also get annoyed now and then when I read the opinion article of this old wining feminist lady about the big iniquity that has been done to women again that week by -us- dominant and ignorant males...in my favorite parth of the quality press book weekend knack.. etc etc etc.
The word feminist - for me it stinks a bit.
Please ladys do consider that it are insecure times , even in modern countries like mine.
Men are also captured in these role paterns. Men are often still expected to bring in the money ...and now they also need to be the new men , the macho a tender father , a good cook... etc etc.
Where am I heading for (before I turn in to be one of those naggers myself).
Well , I was thinking , If horses want to be sexy and wear sexy stockings , let it be.
If woman want to be butch. that's fine too. And if men want to be well dressed , handsome , polite and sexy (see picture) that is even more fantastic. ;-)
But I hope the new feminist wave is beyond that man-woman conflict thing. ;-)
And maybe that word is up for a serious renovation.
frank.
Originally posted at 4:26PM, 3 September 2005 PST
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belgianchocolate edited this topic 40 months ago.
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One from 'Hartjesdag' in Amsterdam.
A day when men dress up like women and women dress up like... (you had that one already , the smart audience.)
If appears to be easier for men to look like a woman then the other way around. ;-) Anyway , this is one of the few woman who succeeded. While I always used to think that it should be easier for woman from the Netherlands. (lol , joking joking..)
Now , one of those feminists waves was more woman in politics , more woman doing this and that. That is fine by me...but is it useful IF those woman do the same things like men? And women with power do they perform better then men? Why do they do powerdressing? And of course that is because it is a male system.. yes yes , I understand.
Now it's your turn Girlzzz.
Originally posted 40 months ago.
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belgianchocolate edited this topic 40 months ago.
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So glad you are engaging in this conversation, Frank. I like what you are saying. I just got back from a party and the kids are falling asleep on their feet so I will write more later. I think horses in stockings is a wonderful idea.
Posted 40 months ago.
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I've thought over your statements a few times by now, and I have a few responses that might be positive for this conversation.
Firstly, I like your "let it be" attitude. I like that you support that women still have work to do to experience equality. I like mostly that you are open about your feelings. You have brought to this group the heart of some of the misunderstandings that hurt all of us. Thank you!! You are a courageous person, and now we can all bounce off of the things you have brought up!!
What do I think...I think things are different enough in our two countries, that we could learn from each other's way of seeing things--and this is one of the reasons I love Flickr...it keeps me aware of thoughts beyond my cultural norm.
Some of what you said was a bit surprising to me: Do you really have whining women writers who spout off in your magazines about dominant and ignorant men? Sounds like they have bad manners, to me. Sometimes I have encountered men with bad manners who distill what a woman says down to a stereotype because they are angry or defensive, but for the most part in this country now, feminism is about looking at history and observing how women and men get put into boxes of expectations...like your comment about men still being expected to bring in the money...which is also different here. Most families in the US now cannot afford to have one person at home and the other supporting the family, therefore almost everyone works.
How I interepret what you said about that is that sexism hurts men and women both. That I think is very true, and I agree with you completely. Let us establish here and now that we both believe in equal opportunities for women AND men. I know we both feel that way.
As for powerdressing, I know what you mean...I find it creepy, myself. That is one reason, undoubtedly, why I will never be a wealthy woman. Men do it too...the suit and tie uniform that many men are required to wear. I feel sorry for them. I work in a preschool and get to wear casual clothes, and for that I am grateful. I know that in the eighties, here, women were told that they would need to compete in the corporate work world if they wanted equal pay and equal opportunities, and there was a big push for "power dressing."
You and I know there will always be people for whom power is more important than it should be. Men and women both. But I do think that, if in Belgium women do not have the same opportunities that men have, they may be trying to compete in all sorts of ways. This has relaxed here, somewhat, in the past two or three decades. I cannot speak for what it is like to work in a large corporation, but at least in the human services jobs, women and men seem to have achieved a fair amount of equality--of course, you still run into occasional people who are uncomfortable with equality.
What sort of work do you do, Frank? You are obviously a very good cook...do you get paid to create your culinary treats, or is that just for fun? Have you had specific experiences with sexism in your workplace? It seems that Belgium is fairly open-minded in terms of gender and sexuality, or is that just a misconception I got from your photostream? :-D
At any rate, no-one is protesting horses wearing stockings, which is undoubtedly a good sign.
Originally posted 40 months ago.
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DubbyUB (a group admin) edited this topic 40 months ago.
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wow people.
It's tough. I guess that was one of the reasons I started this group...to talk about it. I don't like all the bone picking, etc. and it feels like the left is far too fractitious to get anything done these days. At least in this country. On the other hand...
I like yr. pics Belgian. Think they make a nice addition to the group. There are so many rules, sigh. And Girlz is a lot better than feminists, HOWEVER, it wasn't most women who ruined the word. I like the word Bitch too. :)
Posted 40 months ago.
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I just know too many men that are bitches I'm afraid.
Hey Girlz , I found a species of animal where the female is (almost) as beautiful as the male. They are rare those species...
(see it as a joke , pleeeeeze)
Originally posted 39 months ago.
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belgianchocolate edited this topic 39 months ago.
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