I Shoot Film / Discuss

kukkurovaca    says:

Do you think it's actually color from the scene, or a color cast resulting from the mask? (For that matter, true black and white film, when scanned, will have a color cast if you scan it as a color file. I kind of like it, actually.)

photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008epx
Originally posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )
kukkurovaca edited this topic 2 months ago.

louisclub    says:

yeah , even black and white film is not black. mine usually have a blue or purple tint. when scanning, it result as an orange - sepia tint. when you see black and white film scanned, if it has no color tint, that because it has been desaturated by a software in the computer. ( may it me the scanning software, or a post-processing software like photoshop, the desaturation stay the same)

to have true black and white image, the only way is to makes enlargment on black and white paper

or you can just desaturate in photoshop you scan.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Lens-work says:

Thats why I print in the darkroom...guaranteed B&W...unless your fixer is bad:)
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

equivalence    says:

Darkroom printing is great, but you certainly DON'T have to put up with these color casts in scans of either C-41 or traditional B&W film.

Just scan properly, by scanning in greyscale or neutralizing the cast in RGB. Or desaturate in Photoshop.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Voxphoto    says:

Crikey, I think Ilford's XP2 and Kodak's BW400CN are the Rodney Dangerfield of films--they "don't get no respect."

When put through a generic minilab process, yes they get weird color casts. THIS IS NORMAL. It's just the price you pay for getting quickie 1-hour proof prints.

When you scan the negative yourself, or make a darkroom print (XP2 much preferable for this) they're perfectly lovely.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

camxoxo says:

i love scanning b/w in color. it gives it this selenium faded unnatural tonality and you can see color shifts depending on whether you push stops or not. i say scan it in color and if it comes out odd just desaturate it later....
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

PhonographSounds says:

I agree. I like the faux selenium tone, it gives everything a very cool and almost futuristic tint.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

yellowplease    says:

I used to hate it, but then i run a 35mm version and got some decent prints of it, not the 1 hour lab type, but decent labs. Also i find it has a color cast when scanning, but then again so does HP5 and PanF

i cant tell the difference from xp2 to hp5

xp2




HP5


Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Rolf F.    says:

i love the green cast on the two imagies in the first post! thanks for sharing! now i know how to scan my b/w negatives :)
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

equivalence    says:

Green and magenta. But remember you can add any tone (or split tone) you want AFTER scanning, too...
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Steve.Korn    says:

I really like XP2. I think it looks good and it's nice to be able to have a roll developed and scanned at Costco for a total of $4.50:


Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Andrej Podrekar says:

Girl in photolab also told me that 400cn is not black and white,...but it is mhm..sephia. That is stupidest thing i have ever heard. Of course you must set your minilab/scaner/whatever to B&W scaning (16bit B&W negative) when you scan B&W film! They just dont know how to do this because B&W films are so rear nowdays.

Btw...i just bought pack of 400cn. :) ...
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

andydrew [rebuilding]    says:

I'm with Voxphoto on this, they are much maligned and unfairly so.

I like the chromogenics a lot. Super easy to get processed, super-easy to scan because Digital ICE works on them. I scan them as b&w and they comes out perfectly well, with no colour cast and no dust to get rid of in ps.

I only use silver b&w film these days when I want high speed, anything slower I use XP2.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

sweet distin    says:

I'd never expect the colour to be just how I wanted it, whichever film I used.
Just spend a little time fixing it and you'll be happy.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

-RobW-    says:

HP5 comes out purple if I scan it in colour. Really noticeabley purple. Just scan in greyscale.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

the_wolf_brigade    says:

^^ So does FP4. Sometimes it works well.

I can't say I'm a fan of XP2, though I was over the moon when this turned up during scanning!



I always scan in RGB and convert later.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Hello//Vertigo says:

Hehe, sorry for the rant, I was just annoyed. Thanks for all the responses.. I have seen the color cast, it has happened to me in the past where I've had a green cast on all my pictures. The reason this annoyed me was because those colors are actually in the scene I shot. That barrel was red, that sign was green.. I do kind of like it, but I will fix some others post process.

One day I'll have the stuff to develop my own, until then, this is what I'll have.. :)
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

fmajor007 says:

I have had the color cast problem happen to me just recently. However, because i have had many, many excellent experiences/prints from XP2 i know it is the "work" of my local developer/printer who got the print settings wrong and not the film itself.

I can't compare the XP2 to other B&W traditional films b/c i have never shot them, but on-screen, i have had similar contrast/tonality to traditional B&W films.

Admittedly, i don't know exactly which specific films or their development/print process, but i am more than pleased with the results i've had with XP2 - except a few isolated instances.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

-RobW-    says:

"The reason this annoyed me was because those colors are actually in the scene I shot. That barrel was red, that sign was green"

That must be coincidental, surely? C41 B&W just produces black dyes, it can't separate into colours. Those shots show that the shadow areas are green and the light midtone / low highlight areas are pink, it just happens that your green sign is dark and your red barrel was light compared to the rest of the scene.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Hello//Vertigo says:

It must be Rob. :) I'm sorry for ranting, I will just fix it, they aren't such great shots to begin with, hehe.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

liveon35mm.com says:

I kind of like the result, but to avoid it you should go to a good lab and ask to use the right filter.

Or start shooting proper B&W and developing the film yourself .
If you don't decide to do the printing as well it is cheaper, easier and much more rewarding.

best
Vale
liveon35mm
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Vintage Emulsion says:

They look good.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

lauren.rabbit    says:

I've never liked C-41 process B&W, to me it does not share the characteristics of true black and white- it's an entirely different animal.

Having said that, there are many people who use it well. Once you understand the nature of a thing and accept it for its' own, as opposed to using it as a basis for comparison, familiarity and experimentation will determine your results. Trial and error, then accept it or reject it on its' own unique strengths and weaknesses.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

#BennehBoy    says:

Nice road name!
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

makow says:

As far as tones and dynamic range c41 is just not the same. I would rather shoot colour and just convert it in photoshop
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Hello//Vertigo says:

Thanks again for the feedback. B&W is not something I am good at, and not having the option of a proper class/darkroom until the fall, I figured I would practice with this film. It's hard! And Benneh, that's why I took a picture of it. My friend didn't believe me!
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

kukkurovaca    says:

Girl in photolab also told me that 400cn is not black and white,...but it is mhm..sephia.

-RobW-    says:

Hello//Vertigo

Everyone loves a good rant :o)

It's a lovely tritone effect actually, I'll have to nick the tones for use as a Photoshop gradient map for my digi shots :o)

Just not quite what you were after when shooting B&W :oD
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

fotosniper    says:

I like when i scan Xp2 my scanner gives it a sephia tone, sometimes i go with it.

Originally posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )
fotosniper edited this topic 2 months ago.

Meleager    says:

I am a patient enough man to wait for real BW to come back, and I'm thinking of getting into developing, but I just adore Kodak BW400CN for it's own merits. First of all it is VERY forgiving. I routinely shoot it at 800 or even 1600 and you can just keep turning the ISO dial from shot to shot as needed. I love the sharpness and the tones. I was very skeptical and bought it just to try it out. it is also a great film to give to a child or beginner who wants to try black and white. I can't wait to try it out in medium format size next.


shot at box speed


shot at 800 to freeze the action but preserved depth of field


scanned print with color cast, shot at 800 in low light


scanned print, color cast removed
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

mugley    says:

BW400CN goes to 2mins before reciprocity failure kicks in. Apart from Acros, there's not much else that comes close.
Originally posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )
mugley edited this topic 2 months ago.

squishband    says:

I'm in agreement with lauren.rabbit (well who wouldn't be?)

I use XP2 almost exclusively at the moment (buying 100' loads and having them deved at Tesco makes the process very cheap). I enjoy the results. it's different stuff, but does the trick.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

davelightseer    says:

I've got a half dozen rolls of BW400CN to shoot (three of them expired). I've shot XP2 Super before as well. I've got no problem with the chromogenics. No negative scan is ever the final image for me, so desaturating false color casts is just part of the job.

As for "real" black and white film, it's so easy to develop, once you do a couple of rolls, you'll wonder why everyone isn't doing it.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

omatix    says:

here is a photo taken with Kodak 400CN film. the photo has sort of a reddish tone to it. granted, it is not "true" b&w, but i think the fact that it is different adds to it's usage.

@Hello/Vertigo: although your photos didn't come out how you wanted them to, they still look good, and the greenish tone adds personality to the photos, i think.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

bluest_girl    says:

Another aspect of the C41 films is the grain structure is very different, and some people find it more subtle and unobtrusive than similar speed BW film.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

HampusBovbjerg    says:

I scanned someones roll of BW400CN at my internshop and it really made me want to try some, i've gotta buy some tomorrow.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

yikes_scoobie says:

@ Hello/Vertigo.
If you don't like it then get over it and don't use it. Maybe you should try improve your methods and photography skills rather than blaming your tools.
Originally posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )
yikes_scoobie edited this topic 2 months ago.

Hello//Vertigo says:

Thank you very much for your wonderful advice, Scoobie. I apologize that my awful rant on the internet (which I am clearly over) has put such a damper on your day. Here's a tip: if you don't like a thread, ignore it and get over it. Easy-peasy. Hope your day gets better!

To everyone else, again, thank you for all your tips!! You've all been really helpful, I now know what the problem is and I'll be working with it next time I shoot this film. :)
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Riskyman    says:

I agree with bluest. I was pleasantly surprised using XP2 for the first time. The tonal gradation is amazing. Its not traditional BW but then again it may handle enlargement to big prints from 35mm film better.


Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

Photosensitive.ca    says:

I mostly use conventional B&W, but really like C-41 B&W. To my eyes, Ilford XP2 gives a similar look, when scanned, to Efke 25 (which is four stops slower). Definitely a useful film.

If you want to see what XP2 is capable of, visit your public library and look for books by Eddie Ephraums.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

thewrongkindoftouch says:

yeah i also like the greenish tone. and i dont know why you complain you can just photoshop it the way you like it anyways. If i complained for every time i scanned something and didnt come out perfectly how i would like it without photoshop everyone would hate me for flooding the group.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

sweet distin    says:

gosh!
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

~ aidan says:

Not a big fan of XP2 - it is just too bleh. BW400CN however. Amazing. I developed an old roll I found in the "films I really should develop" box and it came out awesome. It was expired when I got it (only 50p) so it was a bargain :D
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )

marco_llanos    says:

Here are a few that I shot with 400CN. It's not bad I just had to learn how to scan it and play with.
Certainly not as good as my favorite BW film but it gets by in a pinch.





Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink )