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help with composition
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One of my biggest problems with photography is composition, so i thought i would start a thread on it.
Sticking to the rule of thirds sometimes seems very constricting and my subjects can't always be balanced. So what tips can i get from you flickrites to help me improve?
Originally posted at 1:48PM, 15 May 2008 PDT
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ninjawil edited this topic 2 months ago.
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Personally I believe that if it looks good to YOU than don't worry too much about other peoples opinions. Whatever you create should please you first.
Also, all rules are made to be broken.
Posted 2 months ago.
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Rule of thirds? According to the American Park Network, you should "try to keep the main focus of your picture centered within the frame".
;)
Posted 2 months ago.
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everything..always..centered? How boring...
Posted 2 months ago.
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In my opinion, I will never follow any rule about how pictures are supposed to be composed.
After all the idea is to develop your own style.
If everyone followed the "rule of the thirds" photography would be so boring.
So I will stick with SteveFromMiami said, if looks good to YOU, its all that matters.
After all, it is for a good reason that a genius once wrote:
" Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds "
Albert Einstein
Posted 2 months ago.
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Looked at your stream. Your fear of "composition" is unfounded, perhaps because you pay the necessary attention to it. Balance is far more important than the rule of thirds (imho). One simple in the camera trick is to severely blur your view in the viewfinder. That way you can check both your tonal and color balance, independently of subject and resolution.
Originally posted 2 months ago.
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walking along edited this topic 2 months ago.
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There are two things you can do to improve.
First, study pictures from other photographers. Se how the elemens are shown and think about what would you do different.
Second, go out and shot some rolls of film. Ops, not using film? Better, fill some memory cards. Take a subject and see it from different angles. Shot most of them, if not all.
Nothing beats study and practice. :)
Posted 2 months ago.
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walking,
I'm interested in this out of focus check, can u elaborate? How do you evaluate the color and tonal balance in a view of blur?
Posted 2 months ago.
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Try these articles, if you haven't already read them:
http://digital-photography-school.com/blog/digital-photography-composition-tips/
(Personally, I think there's an awful lot of misunderstanding about the rule of thirds but this forums probably isn't the place for my home-grown, unschooled theories ;) )
Posted 2 months ago.
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straylight,
i'd be interested in your views if you want to share them
Posted 2 months ago.
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I am not a very good photog, but what I've learned in life is that rules are usually the beginnings instead of the ends.
Rules(of thumb) are formed using generalization by people with vast experience on certain subjects. They tell you in general how to find a solution, but they are not necessarily right in every situation. Rules give you the starting points to explore from so you don't feel overwhelmed when faced with an unfamiliar situation. In the end, you have to decide what is appropriate and what is not.
Specifically in terms of rules of thirds, I think you can use the rules of third as the starting point. Then move the main subject a little to the left, and see how that changes the picture, and move a little to the right and see how that changes the picture and so on. As you do that, you will start forming an image in your mind on what the end product should look like. Then capture what in your mind.
Posted 2 months ago.
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Well, take them with more than just a pinch of salt!
The rule of thirds (in my utterly ignorant opinion) as it is usually expressed is actually two separate idea mashed up into one.
1) Images composed in bands of thirds appear well-balanced to the human eye.
2) The human eye, in the absence of any other Key Point of Interest, will gravitate to the top right hand intersection of a grid that divides the image up into thirds.
Neither of these are rules about how to compose photos, really, instead they are properties of the human visual system. But because we use the human visual system to look at photos, setting up (ie composing) images to suit these properties results in images that are pleasing to the human visual system.
However, it's important to remember that these are not the *only* properties of the human visual system.
Others, for example:
If there is a face in the frame, you will naturally be drawn to look at it, no matter where in frame it is.
If there are *eyes* visible in frame, you will naturally be drawn to look at those. Or, for that matter, anything that looks enough like eyes.
Same goes for genitalia (although social and cultural values may produce a "look/look-away" sort of response).
The human visual system is built for a three dimensional world, thus it tries to establish a sense of perspective. So it will automatically follow any dominant lines in an image.
Areas of high contrast are automatically interesting to the human visual system, for a variety of reasons.
If someone sticks something right up in your face, your first instinct is to focus on it, at the exclusion of anything that is still visible around it. ("fill the frame").
The human eye tries to focus. When presented with blurry scene with one point that is in focus, that's where you'll look. [see lensbaby lenses]
The human visual system places a high value on symmetry and geometry.
---
Anyway, all of those things are features of the human visual system. To me, composition is about understanding how those features affect how we view an image. Any 'rule' or 'guide' about composition is really just a reflection of a feature of the visual system.
What does this mean for your photography? Well, who knows, I'm not a good photographer. :P
But I think the practical implementation of my thoughts would be this: don't think so much about composition as having any fundamental existence as an entity, it's the human visual system that has fundamental qualities. So exploring and coming to understand *how* your visual system works (in relation to both the world, and photography) may unlock the idea of 'composition' for you. Trying to figure out *why* the 'rules' exist in the first place is always a good thing to do before one goes breaking them.
Then again, probably best to ask someone who knows what they're talking about ;)
Posted 6 weeks ago.
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Interesting stuff, straylightfascination. I had this blurred shot lying around for quite a while. There's no area in focus. But it includes blurred areas of a persons face, high contrast areas and colour patches. Even some blurred letters. Unintentionally, GustavoG, the high contrast white pillar is dead centre. And thats what I see first. :-)
Posted 6 weeks ago.
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 Hey, thanks for reading through that! Made it worth while the typing if just one person had a look, which is never guaranteed.
I agree with you, my eye is immediately drawn to the high bright-dark contrast area with the white pillar, and then it follows the red banner along, which tricked me into thinking the motion of the camera is from frame-left to frame-right (whereas on closer inspection, the camera seems to be travelling right to left?). I think the person is too motion-blurred to be immediately recognisable and draw the eye, but it does add a strange spookiness when you realise that there is someone there!
Posted 6 weeks ago.
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There are other people who study, practice, and discuss this all the time: artists and graphic designers. Without being conscious of it, my exposure to graphic design definitely affects my choices in the viewfinder.
So, for example, the rule of thirds is a special case of "asymmetrical balance." A third is a good general guideline, but sometimes the element in the frame other than your subject is so strong you need to shift away from the third in order to preserve a sense of balance.
Some hasty links gleaned from a visit to google... not the best out there I'm sure, but since I'm lazy about writing right now [smile], these at least illustrate my point.
Balance
Principles of Design
Posted 6 weeks ago.
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This had quite a response. The rule of thirds is a rule of thumb. Once you get over it and make it internal - which probably is the case - you're out in the open.
There are another rules about generally pleasing composition too: perspective usually attracts the eye. Also eyes follow strong lines in the frame, so if you have one line crossing a "third" it's likely the viewer will follow it to its end. Combine these two principles and you get that unless you want to, perspective may also serve to bring the viewer's focus away from your main subject - be careful when composing.
walking along, thanks for the tip - sounds really good.
Farhiz, we're drawn to light usually too. That pillar stands out like a flashlight amidst the comparatively low key surroundings.
Posted 6 weeks ago.
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Thanks stray light fascination what you had said is interesting.mreting thanks for the link too.
Posted 5 weeks ago.
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A lot of very valid points have already been made. I'm just going to add one thought...
It's okay to throw the rule-book away once you have mastered it.
What I mean is, if Picasso were to paint a picture of a woman where all the shapes in her face were triangles, the world would rejoice and say "wow, this is great art". If a 3 year old was to paint a picture of a woman where all the shapes in her face were triangles, the kid's parents would say "oh how nice darling" whereas the rest of the world would say "yeah, children's drawings are cute but this is not particularly nice".
So what's the difference? The difference is that for Picasso, it would be a deliberate choice which he would use to emphasize certain aspects. For the kid it would be because it couldn't do better.
Or another example. The master builder will bang a screw 3/4 way in using a hammer and screw it in the rest of the way. The apprentice would never be allowed to get away with that. Why? Because the apprentice first has to learn to get a feel for exactly how the material works by doing things "the proper" way. Once he has that feel, he's also a master builder and can do whatever he pleases.
Read the good advice already given, look at pictures you admire, try to dissect them in your head and figure the composition out. Then try to do similar things. Once the similar things become natural, stop thinking about "rules" and take pictures which appear pleasing to you.
Posted 5 weeks ago.
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just frame and shoot away...some of the most recognized photographers never shot a scene once and it came out great...keep on shooting...no rules...if it looks good for you then it looks good...you dont shoot to please others(well its a bonus if they like it) you shoot for yourself...
Posted 5 weeks ago.
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There are no hard bound rules about composition...All rules have disclaimers like "Break this rules whenever necessary".
So you can always safely say that "I was trying to break the rule" :)
But some general guidelines I try to follow:
1. Try to place the main subject at the most prominent place -> the attention should come to the subject... Frankly, thats the only rule I follow ...
2. Include other secondary subjects also in the frame -> makes the viewer wonder whats the relationship between both. At the same time the secondary subject shouldn't be distracting and should only add to the frame. Also will give a sense of size
3. Whenever lines are present, try to use them to focus the attention on the main subject
Will think of some more tips later...
End of the day, I believe that a picture has "good composition" if you were able to convey what you wanted to convey to the viewer ...
Posted 5 weeks ago.
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Wonderful examples, adarsh!
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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Thanx Vieira...just my two cents
Lets us share ideas & grow together...and take more awesome shots...
Expecting more tips from others...
Come on guys...n gals .. :)
Originally posted 4 weeks ago.
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adarsh_antony edited this topic 4 weeks ago.
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good stuff adarsh. Ideally, there shouldn't be anything in the photo that you don't want in there, that may distract the eye from the subject. that's hard to put into practice, but i reckon the best photos are sometimes the simplest
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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