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I well understand that "if I can see it, I can save it".
However, Flickr does not need to provide API keys to people writing applications that automate the process and override the Flickr settings.
I'm happy with a lot of neat software written to use the API. That's one of the reasons I don't want to opt out entirely by turning off API access to my account.
But, I don't have to sit back complacently when someone creates software that violates the API TOS. I can try to educate the developers and introduce them to smarter developers who create great apps AND follow the rules.
This group of developers seems bent on breaking the rules just because it will be commercially beneficial to them if they do.
Posted 2 months ago.
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ColleenM I basically agree with you; the original version of the app (at least) went way beyond what the API terms allow, and it shouldn't have done. I think that's enough to deal with, your references to posting photos elsewhere seemed to be over-egging the pudding somewhat - there didn't seem any need to imply non-existent wrongdoing to go along with what was actually happening.
Posted 2 months ago.
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so i am interested to hear if anyone feels there are still any outstanding issues with this application?
as in, the version which you can go and download right now.
Posted 2 months ago.
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ride5000kag Only that you cannot download your own images if they are ARR.
The interface could also use some work. When you select ARR images to download, you actually don't get a failure response -- it just simply won't download the images, but doesn't tell you that. It will inform you when you have successfully downloaded CC images.
Posted 2 months ago.
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I think its good and its bad... But if your really into photographer you know they can always get what they want from you. They can use screen capture with so many programs even operating system can do it like windows XP and cut and paste the image what ever they want. There is really no way someone can be stop. Now I understand it can be use to take all your photos. Flickr should give or make a program so we can download to do this for our own photos that is what we need.
IF we think about it.. Flickr is like a car with one gear. No reverse. I know we all should back our photos up, but when your just getting started its hard to buy everything you need the photography world is not cheap.
I have taken tons of photos i think i'm up to 10,000 photos here on flickr. There has been time that I crash my computer even with back up drives I don't back up when I should, but do we all do what we should? I think not. if you do with your photo, do you do it with every aspect of your life?
There was a time. I wanted to download a set (hidden set) but I found out it was impossible and you know Windows thats right. I have reinstalled window at lease twice a year or 3 now.. so I had to down load one at a time... Got it done in a week, but that was so old school felt like if I was on a 14.4 modem meaning it took a long time.
If flickr has not stop this program yet I will use it on my own account, because I found this topic because I was actually looking for something to help me with getting my photos. I want to put them on a CD slide show, so they wont print them.
I would use flickr to intro duce them to the photos, but like I said if my client find me on flickr nine times out of ten the client has the photos hanging on his/her living room wall already. LOL
Posted 2 months ago.
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GTS PHOTOGRAPHY Here, use these to do batch downloading of your Flickr photos:
Migratr
FlickrEdit
You can also order a CD from QOOP of your Flickr photos:
www.flickr.com/do/more/
Posted 2 months ago.
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it's pretty clear that the flickr api is a hack and not well written or tested or maintained. IMHO, this is entirely flickr's issue and they should be held liable for anything released from their site regardless of their stated "rules". Blaming someone for stealing data they are not supposed to completely misses the point of where the problem is. Why is most everyone defending flickr's poor api implementation?
Sadly, I guess it needs to be said: anything and everything you ever upload to ANY computer site (pictures or whatever) will be leaked out to the worst possible people. Deal with it. Best advice - don't upload it if you care about it and don't whine when it happens. Common sense folks, common sense.
Posted 2 months ago.
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Um, this is a developer issue, too. Devs can and should develop apps with the API that respect a user's wishes.
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wait. You say in the same breath that anything anyone uploads carries the risk of being stolen, and yet ALSO that it is completely Flickr's fault if it occurs?
One or the other. I vote for uploader beware.
Posted 2 months ago.
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Just wanted to throw in my two cents into this forum. I have a bunch of photos that are only on Flickr (for stupid reasons that will remain unknown) and have been looking for a while for a good batch downloader for my files. I'm not interested in stealing anybody elses, just archiving my own on my Mac.
I found an add-on for firefox called Fire/Universal Uploader, which lets you batch upload AND batch/mass download from your own Flickr, Picasa, Youtube, Facebook (and a couple more) accounts. You have to authorise it so as far as I can tell there's no 'Flishing' of other people's accounts, which has been the main through-line of this forum.
If you use Firefox it's a simple way for downloading batches of your own photos in case you don't have them backed up anywhere else.
addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4724
Hope that helps someone, somewhere.
MG?!
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Many of users told us that Flishr doesn't allow them even to download their own photos if they are tagged as ARR... Now this bug is fixed and you can download Flishr V3.01+ to get access to all sizes of your ARR photos. You just have to Authorize it.
Some users are also asking us if we can customize Flishr to have special features for their own use..We are still considering if our team can go for it or not as we are tied up with other projects..But feel free to drop us email so we may help you to have what you want...
As a small hint, if you choose ARR photos to be downloaded, we don't give you Alert message and we simply skip from those photos...We may produce one time Alert in our next versions...But still if you drag your mouse over each thumbnail, you can see the Licensing stuff.
Posted 2 months ago.
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Rojina
Thanks for continuing to make this a compliant application. Sounds like it's getting better and better.
Posted 2 months ago.
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If you search the help forum on the keywords of batch and download you come across a whole heap of people asking about this. There are a load of 3rd party applications out there which use the API and this discussion has focussed on one of them.
However a very simple question to the flickr team. Are you going to add a feature to the organizer to allow ordinary pro users who are not professional photographers to batch download their own original files?
Yes people can go and download various 3rd party software for this function but it would be a heck of a lot easier to add it to the organizer.
Posted 5 weeks ago.
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timple It may be a simple question - but you won't get an answer. Flickr does not pre-announce any new features or functions.
I don't think the original concept of Flickr as an image sharing service made any provision for mass downloads, on the basis that of course you'd always keep local copies of your images!
Posted 5 weeks ago.
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I doubt that Flickr would add such feature to Organizer because if they would , they had done it much much earlier..not a hard job. The thing is that Flickr does not like see his users are migrating to another photo Storage company. In this case, if they allow you to backup and go, it means they open the doors for their users to say bye to Flickr. But still you can backup your photos because it is your right, but not in truly easy Organizer way..this is more or less a strategical decision made be Flickr.
We are working with a new guy who is supposed to deliver JAVA version of Flishr. This version is compatible with Mac, Linux and Windows. At the moment Flishr is just for Windows.
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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Anyone with any sense would have their images fully backed up before even uploading them to Flickr, and wouldn't need to mass download them in order to leave Flickr...
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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I am only asking because yes I have my photos backed-up but this is a pain to maintain and to do it really securely you need to keep the back-up drive in another geographical area.
Yes I can use 3rd party software like Rojina's but this then gives another organisation my password and they could misuse it. (I am not saying that Rojina would do this).
So why Flikr don't just go ahead and do this and allow it's customers to do this via a secure 1st party method is a real mystery. Perhaps it's a case of wanting to make space for 3rd parties to offer programs and this feature is the obvious one that you don't realise you need until you are an established user.
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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Flishr and other 3rd party apps using the API do not make you use another password -- where on earth did you get that idea?
You authenticate against your Flickr account by granting the 3rd party's API key access to your account.
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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timple
>>to do it really securely you need to keep the back-up drive in another geographical area.
Why not just burn some DVDs and mail them to a relative?
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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timple's not saying you have to use another password, but that you have to give your existing Flickr one to someone else (the third-party app)...
As to back-ups - that's the point, timple: if Flickr suddenly goes "pop" one night , unbacked-up users will lose the lot. Under NO circumstances should anyone be entrusting the only existing copies of thier images to any website.
Back them up to a hard-drive, CD / DVD, USB drive, etc. Do that BEFORE uploading them to Flickr. Simply back-up new images as they're created. Either your images are worth taking that much trouble for, or they're not...
If "not", that's hardly Flickr's fault...
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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Dr. Keats edited this topic 4 weeks ago.
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By your logic, Flickr's business model is predicated on users who are too stupid to keep a local copy of their precious files, and too lazy to download them via one of the many third party download tools available.
I guess you can always make money out of the stupid and the lazy!
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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But you don't even give the 3rd party your password. You just say, "ok, let this app access my account in the following ways" and then you can rescind that access. That's the whole beauty of the API, you don't give your password to anyone.
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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Yes - you know that, I know that, but...
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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I know, that's why I'm not arguing with you, Doc, but more pointing out that timple has no idea what he is talking about since he's not even willing to try the solution that exists and that he seems to need, and is making wild speculation about it to boot.
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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In my own experience, I realized that many users even don't know how API works and what type of information a 3rd party application has access to.
For example, in our download statistics, it shows many users could download Flishr successfully, they could install and Register Flishr successfully, but they have not been able to Authorize it in Flickr ! Why? because when they goto Flickr page which says you are Authorizing Flishr, Do you Agree or not? many users think oh my god, they will have my password and they may misuse it..so forget about using this App!! very simple wrong perception about what an App can do.. A 3rd Party App won't have access to users' passwords!
I am trying to extract real numbers out of this. I believe Flickr should clearly mention this to USERS while they are authorizing an App!
Posted 4 weeks ago.
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Wow, I can't believe this has gone on for so many pages.
Here is my opinion: Regardless of the intentions of the developers of flshr, (whether they intentionally are creating an application to allow users to mine files they shouldn't have downloadable access to)
THERE IS AN INHERENT FLAW IN THE flickr API SYSTEM THAT EXPOSES USERS PHOTOS TO BE MINED.
once you give a third party applications the right to access the ACTUAL PHYSICAL FILES of copyrighted or protected photos you are opening the system up to be abused (this is a similar issue with facebook apps).
I doubt that anyone from flickr will ever be able to read this because it is buried under 5 pages of banter, but this is really the heart of the issue.
We can sue (or complain about) people for building API that violate the terms of use (be it intentionally or unintentionally) until the cows come home but there will always be someone out there creating apps that behave maliciously or are just untested apps..
Don't hate the player hate the game
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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earpshmael edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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Well forget for a moment you've revived a debate two weeks dead, there's a little flaw in your theory. The "flaw" you speak of in the API, is sort of the actual point of the API. The purpose is to allow 3rd parties to access Flickr photos. That's what it does. That's required for it to work properly.
What it does NOT do, is give permission for anyone to do so, any further than the permissions that already exist on each members' photo pages. So when someone ignores the license requirements, and takes things without permission, then they're not a "player" anymore, they're a cheater.
Games have rules. Players that don't follow them, deserve whatever ire comes their way.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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I'm saying that the "game" is designed in a way that encourages cheating. There is a desire out there to mine large amounts of photos that can be used to make fake accounts on other sites (you see them on facebook, myspace, hi5, and probably here) in order to spam people with porn site invitations, offers for cheap viagra, or what have you.
There is public access to source code for an uploader, but you have to apply for an API key to be a developer. This essentially means that you are applying for the knowledge/license to download, and learn the "language" required to receive an image file from their server.
What screening process you have to go through in order to get this key is unknown to me, but I'm sure its easy to spoof API keys and build your own application to mine photos (randomizing server requests to mimic actual user behavior is not very difficult).
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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It's no different than the "screening" process to browse Flickr, probably. And API or no API, our photos are available for anyone to take, all the time.
Thus, the only tool we really have, is education and appealing to the ethical standards of individuals. Because crippling the API won't stop cheaters.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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earpshmael
If I can see it on the web, it's already downloaded to my computer. That's just the way the web works.
I don't even need an API key to take any of the photos on your photostream. So I'm not sure what you are proposing.
Do you want Flickr to stop issuing API keys altogether? Or something else?
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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Oh, yes, let's indeed get rid of hammers, guns, forks and knives - anything that might remotely be dangerous if used in the wrong hands.
Never mind teaching people how to use tools ethically. It's not the APi that is the problem -- it's developers with no ethics (and yes, I am deeply appreciate of all the developers who do have ethics - thank you for building amazing Flickr apps).
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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I believe the initial complaint about this application was that it facilitated the downloading of large numbers of full size images. Yes you can do this manually, or even write your own perl script that will do it over a period of time.
The fact that applications (facilitated by the API structure) allow users to batch download other peoples images (even public images) without having to do it manually or write their own script is a problem.
If a request from firefox for 1000 of OTHER PEOPLES images was submitted to their server it would probably be rejected and the originating address flagged, but if an application does this its okay?
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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earpshmael edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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No, it was not OK in its original design, and that's why the application was re-written. In case you didn't read the entire thread or something.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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This application is now API TOS compliant. Rojina has taken the time and made the effort to write his code to be both technically and ethically correct.
Perhaps you'd like to choose a better example of misuse of the API? Because if you'd read and understood this conversation, you'd see that you've got the wrong end of the stick here.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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i believe you can still batch download other people's pics which is not against the rules for the API
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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Try it with his application and report back, ok?
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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Um, you can download other people's photos if they have CC licenses, which allow for said downloading. Do report back when you've taken it for a spin.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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I'm not referring to cc licensed pics.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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Well, MY belief is that you cannot do that.
It's also my belief that you haven't read this thread nor investigated his site. Nor have you actually TRIED the application.
Until you have something more credible than a half-understood once-over of an incredibly complicated problem, then you aren't going to get any audience here.
Bring some hard data into the conversation and we can talk further.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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I have tested this app and I cannot download ANY ARR photos except my own with it.
So, have a go at it, and when you can use Flishr to download any of my photos, give a holler. Videos? Knock yourself out, they are CC.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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here is what I'm talking about: a page created by mining flickr photos based on tag in order to (probably) generated add revenue.
www.nedirnedemek.com/nedir/fotograflar/nevada_oreana_love...
do you think this site was created by manually downloading? No. Someone either wrote a web crawler (which can be a slow way to mine pics), or they wrote their own app, spoofed an API number and batch downloaded all photos in a short amount of time. The fact that their are no copyrighted photos here does not matter.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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earpshmael
Probably better if you want to talk about that site to do it in the thread about that site. This thread is about Flishr.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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no, I'll just start a thread about the API.
I believe my previous comments were relevant to the topic at hand here seeing as how most of the discussion was about whether the problems with this application were due to the application or the API. Even though this software is in compliance with the API rules at this point in time the additional issue with the structure of the API has not been resolved.
I believe that when the initial post was made referring to "stealing" photos this was in reference to all photos, not just copyrighted, in order to be used on other sites
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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I believe that when the initial post was made referring to "stealing" photos this was in reference to all photos, not just copyrighted, in order to be used on other sites
CC photos are LICENSED for use elsewhere.
I get your point, but do try to grok the concept of CC, which allows for certain uses that un-licensed photos do not allow for.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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try to "grok" the concept that what I am talking about has nothing to do with what rights you have or don't have with respect to any type of photos anywhere on flickr.
What I am saying is that the API, and any application that allows batch downloads, facilitates the mining of large numbers of tagged photos for use on sites like the one I just referred to. Yes these things can be done manually, but when you facilitate large scale downloading of full size photos you are opening the door to this type of abuse.
can you "grokk" that?
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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I do grok it. I'm what the anti-copyright crew refers to as a copyright-nazi.
But I'm never going to blame the tool -- I'm going to blame the developers who cannot grok the concept of photographers' rights. It take human will to violate ethics, not some inanimate object.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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It sounds to me as if this conversation has moved out of the realm of the Help Forum and into the "Great Feature Idea" that more appropriately belongs in the Flickr Ideas group.
If you're suggesting a change in how things are done here, that's the place to bring it up.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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double post.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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you can change the API, but you can't change human will...
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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If you cannot change human will, then why did both Darckr and Flishr get re-written to comply with the API ToU?
Sorry, I don't believe in Calvinism. Human will can be changed with education.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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There are too many good uses of the API for me to support a blanket removal of it.
If you are so worried about your photos, I'd suggest not uploading them to the Internet at all.
Even those of us who are normally extremely concerned with the most conservative interpretation of copyright law (that's me and zyrcster for the newbies) don't think the API should be demolished.
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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"Human will can be changed with education".
More successful when re-inforced with some sort of physical component - slap, punch, electric shock, etc...
Posted 2 weeks ago.
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