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invincible books [deleted] 4:00am, 23 December 2006
H@shim A ™ 15 years ago
Nikon has been putting out some terrific models over the last few years... but am still surprised to see this article.

it's really a David/Goliath thing imho - but good to see them rewarded for the DSLRs they've pumped out.

i was really quite suprised to learn that the D200 has outsold all the Canon FF bodies combined - even though it's been out in the market for a much shorter period.

they really seem to be doing all the right things lately... not too sure about their P&S strategy though - but that's not their niche anyhow.

good post, thanks for sharing...
Dean Forbes 15 years ago
This is just a pissing contest. They both make good cameras and lenses.
Bo Eder 15 years ago
If Nikon can top the 2 million or so sales of the Canonet rangefinder then that would be something!
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Ryan Brenizer Posted 15 years ago. Edited by Ryan Brenizer (admin) 15 years ago
i was really quite suprised to learn that the D200 has outsold all the Canon FF bodies combined - even though it's been out in the market for a much shorter period.

I'm not; money is everything, and that FF sensor costs a lot more. I am surprised to see it doing so much better than the 30D -- likely because most 20D users felt they could hang on, but a lot of D100/D70 users were itching for an upgrade.
humorous calculator [deleted] 15 years ago
Not really David / Goliath, more like Goliath Goliath.

If Pentax overtook them that would be something.

Where are sony and their - within the next 5 years we expect to be the second biggest DSLR company.

Hee hee
Sam_Butler 15 years ago
I have to say I'm tremendously happy with the P&S I bought nearly a year ago, the Coolpix E5600. Since a DSLR is currently beyond my budget, and I just carry the compact everywhere with me, it has been able to serve me very well indeed. So I don't know what their strategy is as regards P&S cameras, but their niche is simply in the quality market.

That's my two-penneth anyway.
cgc0202 Posted 15 years ago. Edited by cgc0202 (member) 15 years ago
To be fair, it should be pointed out that this is a data for the Japanese market, a country where Apple Computer is doing quite well. Worldwide or just the US market might be a different story altogether. And, even in Japan, as discussed below Canon is still the long term leader.

Also, between the "comparable models" Canon 400D vs Nikon D80 Canon outpaced Nikon by a mile. As pointed out by carpe icthus, price difference has affected the decisions of people.

And, more important, before the graphs could be given more weight from a casual look, the data tabulated was for a week only and during the first week of the month of December. The point that the original Japanese reporter, Yoshi, was wondering about was why Nikon was doing well during the months of December and January against Canon but not during the rest of the year.

Yoshi's one week data was misrepresented by Ian in the title of his article:

dpnow.com/3308.html

when quoting the data of Yoshi, even if he qualified his point in the article. The incorrect extrapolation is repeated in this thread.

On a longer time scale (one year and six months), Canon is still the leader by a very wide margin:

dpnow.com/forum2/showthread.php?t=1097

as shown in the two graphs included aforementioned, with Canon 400D the most dominant market leader -- see thread discussion.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending Canon, but more to get the record straight. I just bought a Nikon D200 myself instead of a D80, as I originally planned. Not from their popularity but more my planned use for a digital camera.

Now, if only I know how to work the D200. *smiles*
Andy Marfia Posted 15 years ago. Edited by Andy Marfia (member) 15 years ago
David vs. Goliath depends on how you look at it. In the DSLR market, Nikon and Canon are both Goliaths, but if you look at each company as a whole, Canon is by far the larger company. Pentax is a minor player at this point, though the new K10D looks like a great camera, so we'll see what happens. Sony is going to have to try harder than the Alpha if it wants to be #2.
invincible books [deleted] 15 years ago
Actually I guess it doesnt really matter who tops the other. The image really depends on the photographer...equipment doesnt really matter. Nikon Vs. Canon vs everyone doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things.
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Ryan Brenizer 15 years ago
Thanks for the caveats, cgc0202; I was too lazy to list them. ;-)
Aardvark For Freedom 15 years ago
I would love to see Nikon come out with a full frame D2XS type. I would probably be the first in line to buy it (after mortgaging the house of course)....
tychay 15 years ago
I'll take exception to the comparison of the D80 and the 400D being comparable cameras. The former is more expensive and actually has a usable viewfinder and top of the line AF, the latter’s claim to fame is a marketing gimicks like an anti-dust sensor.

Or am I going to have to point out how the D200 has 3x the sales of the "comparable model" 30D?

That's the problem with looking model by model. It’s best to look at overall product strategies.

And in light of that, Canon gets what they deserve here (and hopefully around the world). They’ve been doing a lot of rotten things in the compact camera market to get people to purchase dSLRs and it’s only fair that they should buy a competitor’s dSLR.

Anyone else thinking that the D40 was genius?
wools 15 years ago
Well, to me the D40 is garbage because it autofocuses with 0 of my lenses. :)
tychay 15 years ago
@ian rees: But you already have a D70 so the D40 isn’t for you. :-D
wools 15 years ago
My next camera will be a Fuji S5 or a full-frame D200 type camera.
peri paleracio 15 years ago
The full frame thing will be obsolete. Nikon will not go there. all their good lenses are dx, which is 1.5s. Probably that is why the d200 beats the 5D. Because people are starting to realize that if they go to the 5D full sensor, they will be left behind. The nikkor 18-200 vr is just the start of those super lenses!
Goodbye Flckrr 15 years ago
I wish this wouldn't have happend. I feel like using a Microsoft Product now :-) Lets hope Nikon's quality doesn't drop as sharp as Olympus compacts did when they had the sales records.
hsu box 15 years ago
Woah, woah, woah... Peri, all of Nikon's good lenses are DX? Surely you don't believe that. There are two lenses that pop in my head that blow away all of the current DX lenses - one in speed, both in sharpness.

I don't think you've thought your statements all the way through...

Mr Tang - if all Nikon does is pump more kit lenses into the market, that might just happen ;-) Need more high end lenses!

Or maybe Nikon should trademark a letter, too, to denote quality and overall awesomeness. Works for company C.
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Ryan Brenizer 15 years ago
I think the D40 is brilliant; I just wouldn't recommend it for most Flickr-types. The average SLR user never takes the kit lens off, but there's far too much temptation on these boards to make a collection.
Goodbye Flckrr 15 years ago
carpe: since I got my D80 with a 18-200 (which is fine for almost everything!) I've been dreaming about those F/1.4 primes for night shots. I'm sure once I got it I will start dreaming about a 300+ mm APO lens. By that time, the D300 will probably be out and dreaming starts over again :-)
invincible books [deleted] 15 years ago
peri - sorry to burst the bubble but Nikon is working on a FF camera. Due out in 12-24 month time frame.
plastic mass [deleted] 15 years ago
I am hoping that all of this momentum gives Nikon the incentive to catch up and surpass Canon in development of leading edge lenses, especially in the long glass category, which is where Canon has all but eliminated Nikon as competition.
hsu box 15 years ago
amosstarz - There's been plenty of rumor and guessing, but I'll believe it when I see it ;-)
wools 15 years ago
Hsu, Thom Hogan says.... Summer 2007. Mentions he's under NDA about any further details. :)
Salsavaders Posted 15 years ago. Edited by Salsavaders (member) 15 years ago
"I think the D40 is brilliant; I just wouldn't recommend it for most Flickr-types. The average SLR user never takes the kit lens off, but there's far too much temptation on these boards to make a collection."

I didn't realize this but when Canon changed their mount from FD to EF, all the focus motors were in the lenses. None of the Canon bodies using EF mount has focus motors - so you could say that Nikon is about 19 years behind Canon in the motorless body idea.

I think this is Nikon's way of moving to newer technology in their lenses - they just don't want to take the drastic step of cutting off all backwards compatibility for all of their bodies. Seems Nikon wants to have their cake and eat it too.
tracer.ca 15 years ago
@peri paleracio: There will be room for both FF and 1.5x crop. In no way would I say that Nikons best lenses are in the DX category. (mind you, I'm also one that would never get a lens like the 18-200mm). The 17-55mm DX is one of the examples where smaller is better (compared to the 28-70mm which it replaces). The 12-24mm though nice, is not nearly as nice as the 17-35mm it replaces (though lighter).
Keep in mind that FF also offers lower noise possibilities (though how Nikon will go is yet to be determined.

@larrygerbrandt: I dunno. Nikon has the 200mm f/2 VR and the 200-400mm f/4 VR. Neither of which canon has (or still sells). The 200mm f/2 is particularly lust worthy (as some on this group will agree :)
Sure Nikon is missing VR in the 400 and up category. But I'm sure they'll get there.

@Salsavaders: Yes, and Canon also dropped any possibility of mounting those old FD lenses (amusingly enough, you can mount F mount lenses). I'd rather have Nikons slow approach than Canons outright cutoff. There are some really sweet pieces of glass that can be had in MF for very little money.

@Hsu who?: Yah, I got caught up in all that 6 months ago.
tychay 15 years ago
My opinions on Nikon going full frame

(They’re just opinions.)
shoothead 15 years ago
tychay said:

"I'll take exception to the comparison of the D80 and the 400D being comparable cameras. The former is more expensive and actually has a usable viewfinder and top of the line AF, the latter’s claim to fame is a marketing gimicks like an anti-dust sensor."

I wouldn't call anti-dust sensor a "marketing gimmick". You're showing your bias...
tychay 15 years ago
@shoothead:
Hmm, I thought I show my bias all the time? :-D

How many times have you cleaned your sensor? I’ve done it at least a couple dozen times both using a brush and a giotto rocket and have yet to be inconvenienced by it.

For an enthusiast, it’s a marketing gimmick because sooner or later you are going to have to break out a blower, brush, or pecpad. For a consumer this feature is not—that’s in the highly unlikely event that any of these consumers wil be owning more than one lens with it. But the Rebel XTi and Nikon D80 is no longer a consumer camera. That’s reserved for the Rebel XT and the D40.

To me the $200 price difference is more of a factor than some non-existent insurance like dust shake. I also think the D40 is a great marketing stunt even though I’d recommend nearly everyone look at a D50 instead. To me, not being able to use a 50mm f/1.8 should be considered a deal-killer for any budding photographer.
shoothead 15 years ago
I think the aim of both companies is to have the cosumer become an enthusiast - more money for them...

...and if I never clean another sensor again it will be too soon.

:)

happy holidays everybody!!
Caco Oportot 15 years ago
What's a "canon" ?
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